Pence told Trump he could not reject votes
WASHINGTON – Former Vice President Mike Pence’s refusal to single-handedly reject electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2021, as former President Donald Trump pressured him to do, will be the subject of the Thursday House hearing investigating the Capitol attack.
The latest:
- Pence: electoral count rejection ‘illegal’: Marc Short, chief of staff to former Vice President Mike Pence, says Pence told former President Donald Trump “many times” that any plan to have Pence reject electoral votes was illegal.
- Federal judge: Trump’s order would have been ‘tantamount to revolution’: Federal Judge J. Michael Luttig told the Jan. 6 Committee that had Pence obeyed orders from Trump on Jan. 6, declaring Trump the presidential election winner, it would have “plunged America” into what he says would’ve been “tantamount to a revolution within a constitutional crisis.”
- The vice president ‘cannot possibly’ choose the president: Greg Jacob, counsel to Pence, said that while the Electoral Count Act includes “ambiguous” text, “common sense and structure would tell you” that it “cannot possibly be” that a vice president would have the authority to choose the U.S. president under the Constitut.
What to expect out of today’s hearing:Trump raised millions to fight election fraud before Jan. 6. Here’s how that money was spent.
Giuliani privately admitted Pence couldn’t overturn election before speaking at Jan 6 rally
In a deposition, former Trump impeachment lawyer Eric Herschmann described a call between him and Rudy Giuliani on the morning of Jan. 6.
“We had an intellectual discussion about Eastman’s – I don’t know if it’s Eastman’s theory per se but the VP’s role and he was asking me my view, analysis, and other practical implications of it.” said Herschmann. “And when we finished, he said like I believe you’re probably right.”
“I think he thought, were it done, it was something he’d have to consider if he was sitting on the bench. But he’d probably come down on that and you know, couldn’t interpret it or sustain the argument long term.”
Hours later, Giuliani spoke at the ellipse to Jan. 6 protestors, telling them “Every single thing that has been outlined, as the plan for today, is perfectly legal.”
– Kenneth Tran
Herschmann: “You’re going to cause riots in the streets”
Trump’s counsel John Eastman told White House counsel Eric Herschmann he saw ambiguities within the 12th Amendment that allowed Pence to stop the certification of votes, thus deciding who would be the next president.
“Are you out of your f’ing mind?” Herschmann said to Eastman, saying voters wouldn’t tolerate this and it would cause riots in the streets.
In response, Eastman told Herschmann that there’s been a history of violence in the country to protect democracy and the republic, so it was necessary for Pence to not certify election results.
– Katherine Swartz
Advisors said Pence did not have power Trump claimed
Advisors to President Donald Trump were aware that Vice President Pence did not have the power to overturn the results of the 2020 election, witnesses told the Jan. 6 committee.
Marc Short, Pence’s chief of staff, said White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told him “a couple times” before Jan. 6, 2021 that Pence didn’t have the power. Short added, “Mark had told so many people so many different things that it was not necessarily something that I would accept as, ‘OK, that’s resolved.’”
Jason Miller, an aide to Trump, said White House Counsel Pat Cipillone thought the plan to have Pence affect the election “was nutty and at one point had confronted (Trump lawyer John) Eastman basically with the same.”
– Erin Mansfield
‘No idea more un-American’: Pence lawyers says historic precedence, text refuted Trump scheme to reject results
Greg Jacob, former legal counsel for Pence, said he and other attorneys reviewed the text of the Constitution,the intent of founding fathers and historic precedent, determining the vice president has no authority to choose the next president.
“There is almost no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person would choose the American President,” Jacob said.
Jacob said no vice president in 230 years ever claimed to have such a power that the vice president can reject the electoral votes submitted by states.
Jacob recounted what he told Jon Eastman, the attorney pushing the theory to Trump: “If you were right, don’t you think Al Gore might have liked to have known in 2000 that he had authority to just declare himself president of the United States?”-
– Joey Garrison
Luttig: “The language of the 12th amendment is that simple”
After long testimony, Senior Investigative Counsel John Wood asked retired Federal Judge Michael Luttig if the 12th amendment was as complicated as John Eastman, made it out to be.
“Judge Luttig, at the risk of oversimplifying for the non-lawyers who are watching,” said Wood. “Is it fair to say that the 12th amendment basically says two things happen: the vice president opens the certificates and the electoral votes are counted. Is it that straightforward?”
“The language of the 12th amendment is that simple,” said Luttig.
– Kenneth Tran
Luttig: Vice President Pence had no power to strike down electoral votes.
Retired federal judge Michael Luttig is citing numerous legal rulings to knock down the pro-Trump claim that Vice President Mike Pence had any authority whatsoever to throw out electoral votes.
“There was no historical precedent,” Luttig said.
Basically, the vice president has no power at all when it comes to congressional counting of electoral votes, Luttig said, including recognition of seven slates of alternative electors put up by the Trump people.
“There was no basis in the Constitution or the laws of the United States AT ALL for the theory espoused by Mr. (John) Eastman,” Luttig said at one point. “At all. None.”
Luttig is not just any retired federal judge, by the way – he was once a rising conservative star who came very close to winding up on the Supreme Court.
President George W. Bush had Luttig on his short list, though he ultimately picked John Roberts and Samuel Alito for high court vacancies.
– David Jackson
Trump lawyers wanted Pence to not count Arizona’s electoral votes
A day before the Electoral College met to cast their votes on Dec. 14, 2020, Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro sent a memo to Rudy Giuliani that Pence is charged with “making judgements about what to do if there are conflicting votes.”
Chesebro wanted Pence to not count Arizona’s votes (which JBiden won) in the joint session of Congress, “because there are two slates of votes.”
A group of Trump supporters in Arizona and other states had proclaimed themselves “the true electors for the state,” thus creating a group of official electors chosen by the state, and a group of “fake electors,” Cheney said in the hearing.
– Katherine Swartz
Pence ‘first instinct’ said he did not have power over 2020 election
A lawyer for Vice President Mike Pence said Pence had an immediate response to the idea that he could sway the 2020 election — that there is no way that the framers of the Constitution intended for him to have that power.
Greg Jacob, Pence’s general counsel, recounted Pence’s reaction and described the conversation that came before Jacob put together a legal memo for Pence that explained the obscure line in the Constitution describing the vice president’s role as well as the Electoral Count Act that laid out the process of counting votes.
“The vice president’s first instinct when he heard this theory was that there was no way that our framers – who abhorred concentrated power, who had broken away from the tyranny of George the third – would ever have put one person – particularly not a person who had a direct interest in the outcome because they were on the ticket for the election – in a role to have decisive impact in the outcome of the election,” Jacob said.
– Erin Mansfield
Pence started asking about his authority to count electors in early December
Greg Jacob, Pence’s former counsel in the vice president’s office, said he was first asked by Pence about the vice president’s role in the process to count electoral votes in early December.
Jacob recalled that Pence brought up former Vice President Al Gore using his gavel to strike down some Democratic lawmakers who objected to results in the 2000 election.
Jacob said that both he and Pence concluded that the vice president – in accordance with the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and the U.S. Constitution – lacks any role other than counting the votes certified by the Electoral College. He said the vice president does not have the authority to decide the presidency.
“There is no justifiable basis to conclude that the vice president has that kind of authority,” Jacob said.
– Joey Garrison
Pence lawyer: Eastman knew election scheme violated…
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